CANBERRA, ACT, June 2 -- The Treasurer of Australia issued the following transcript:
Note
Subjects: Budget legislation, Treasury Secretary, housing reforms, tax reforms, wages
Sarah Abo:
We're joined this morning by Treasurer Jim Chalmers live in Canberra. Treasurer, good morning to you. Good to see you.
JIM CHALMERS:
You too, Sarah.
Abo:
So, are you playing God when it comes to these new tax policies, giving yourself the power decide which assets are eligible for CGT discounts?
Chalmers:
Of course not. This is another beat‑up, unfortunately, Sarah. It's not unusual in tax legislation for the definitions to be settled in what are called legislative instruments. Those legislative instruments are disallowable by the parliament. Tax law is full of these kinds of examples.
We made it really clear in the Budget papers that when it comes to new builds, people who are investing in new builds can decide between the 2 different kinds of discount. We made that clear and we said that that would be settled in the usual way, and that's what's happening.
Abo:
So, you will have ministerial discretion on that, though?
Chalmers:
Only to the extent that we determine the legislative instrument that's disallowable by the parliament, if the parliament doesn't like it. But tax law is full of these kinds of examples, that's what makes this just another beat‑up unfortunately.
Abo:
I guess that's part of the issue that you're facing. Before we get to that I just wanted to ask you as well about this, because there are some figures that seem to be outdated. So, is Treasury using outdated numbers for its modelling? The Treasury Secretary has used figures, I think, from 1991, which are obviously half of what today's figures are.
Chalmers:
If you look at that story today about the Treasury Secretary's speech last week, the point that Jenny Wilkinson was making still stands. Whether the average worker is better off by $5,000 or $10,000, the comparison that she was making -
Abo:
But the figures are wrong, Treasurer. I mean, they were completely wrong by half.
Chalmers:
The comparison that she's making is with the top 1percent benefitting by $700,000. Whether you compare that to $5,000 or $10,000, the point still stands. People who are already doing very well-
Abo:
Not when you inflate the numbers, though. I mean, everyone appreciates that a higher bracket is obviously going to earn more or pay more. But when you're inflating the numbers significantly for the lower classes, then that doesn't make sense.
Chalmers:
Well, the difference between $5,000 and $10,000 for the average worker versus $700,000 for the top 1percent, I think the point still stands. The point that Secretary Wilkinson was making is that people who are already doing very well are the biggest beneficiaries by a long way on the current arrangements.
Abo:
Again, no one argues with that, Treasurer. It's just about whether the modelling, whether the data you're using to actually set your policies in place is accurate. I mean, if you had your time again, would you change anything about this Budget, you know, perhaps around the messaging at the very least?
Chalmers:
No, I'm confident that we've made the right decisions for the right reasons, Sarah. There will always be - accompanying major economic reform or tax reform - there will always be scare campaigns full of lies. The Treasury Secretary corrected a number in a speech, but the overwhelming point that she was making still stands.
Our tax changes are all about making it easier for people to buy their first home. They're all about cutting income taxes again and again for working people. When you're trying to make these sorts of changes there will always be the usual scare campaigns. Of course, there are people who would prefer the current arrangements stay in place exactly as they are. But the current arrangements are locking too many people, and especially too many young Australians, out of housing and that's why we're acting decisively to change them.
Abo:
Treasurer, 'lie' is a pretty loaded word. I mean, you denied it when you were accused of lying to the Australian public, and now you're saying that others are lying about your tax policies. I mean, you can't just pick and choose your battles here. I mean, surely you have to take some responsibility for it, and especially with when we're looking at the polls and we're seeing this rise in One Nation, which is directly linked - in large part - to the public being unsatisfied, unhappy, with your Budget.
Chalmers:
First of all, there are a lot of lies being told about inheritance taxes, the treatment of small businesses. Those are just the facts.
Abo:
Like the lies that you told?
Chalmers:
Secondly, when it comes to taking responsibility, I do take responsibility for the Budget and for the ambitious tax reforms which are at the core of the Budget, because they are about cutting taxes for workers, making it easier for people to buy their first home and cutting taxes for business as well. I do take responsibility for that.
This week is a really important week, Sarah. This week is all about higher wages and lower taxes for workers and a fair go for first‑home buyers in the housing market. That's what we are doing here with the legislation which is before the parliament and the decision to be taken by the Fair Work Commission today.
That decision will be made by the Fair Work Commission and announced, and what we want to see and what we have called for is a decent, sustainable real wage increase for millions of workers on the minimum wage and on award wages. The minimum wage has already gone up $9,000 under this Albanese Labor government. We've made our view clear today. Minimum‑wage workers and award workers need and deserve a decent pay rise today, and that's what we've called for.
Abo:
Treasurer, only a few weeks after your Budget you've got a third of the country that has more faith in Pauline Hanson than in you and your government and that's, I think, saying a lot. And you need to be open to that. I mean, otherwise you're pushing through policies that the government - sorry, that the public doesn't even agree with. You've also said that it's a good thing that house prices are falling-
Chalmers:
No, I haven't, Sarah.
Abo:
Well, you said that house prices falling is a good thing for those trying to enter the market, but those who have just entered the market, for example-
Chalmers:
No.
Abo:
- let's say in the past 6months under your Help to Buy Scheme are the ones seeing their home values drop. I mean, you're leaving them a negative equity, if it's a good thing?
Chalmers:
First of all, Sarah, I didn't say that. I said that it's a good thing if first‑home buyers are getting a crack at auctions. I was asked about clearance rates when I made that comment, and so let's make sure that we're repeating that accurately.
Abo:
But it's the same thing, Treasurer.
Chalmers:
One of the reasons why we're making these changes is so that first‑home buyers get a fair go at auctions. That's one of the policy objectives here.
Abo:
Well, the RBA disagrees with you and says your first‑term housing policy isn't working.
Chalmers:
We've done a lot since the first term, Sarah. You're asking me about some of these subsequent steps that we have taken. What they mean is when first‑home buyers go to an auction, they're less likely to be competing with someone who's already bought 5 or 10 or 15 established homes. That's one of our objectives here. I was asked about auction clearance rates and I said it's a good thing if first‑home buyers are getting a fair go at auctions. That's the point that I have made.
When it comes to the broader politics of this, of course we're making contentious changes. It would be surprising at a time when we've got this global oil shock, we've got a budget full of hard decisions and not hand‑outs, we've got a scare campaign full of lies being run, it would be unusual if our vote did go up. But we didn't do this to boost our primary vote, we did this to boost home ownership. That's what this is all about. If it means there are some difficult politics in order to get the policy right, then so be it.
Abo:
All right, Treasurer. Thanks for your time this morning.
Chalmers:
Thank you.
Disclaimer: Curated by HT Syndication.
